The Justice
Department’s scathing Ferguson report shows that the government is paying
attention, Harvard law scholar Charles Ogletree told DW. He says Ferguson is
not an isolated case and suggests what to do about it.
Deutsche Welle, 5 March 2015
Charles
Ogletree is a law professor at Harvard University and the founder and director
of the Charles Hamilton Houston Institute for Race & Justice. Among his
students at Harvard were both Barack and Michelle Obama.
DW: Seven
months after the shooting of Michael Brown, the US Justice Department released
a report detailing racial bias in the Ferguson police department. What is the
most important thing you have learned from that report?
Charles
Ogletree: The most important thing is that the Justice Department is paying
attention and realizes that there is a problem. The second thing is that I was
very surprised when I learned after the death of Michael Brown that even though
African-Americans were in the majority in the community in Ferguson, they
weren't when it came to the police force, the city council or when it came to
getting involved in the community. That was a shocking piece of evidence for me
to find. Since then I have been saying that Ferguson has to be a classic 21st
century city that is going to turn around and where people are going to get
involved. I think that is going to make a big difference in Ferguson and St.
Louis and other parts of Missouri as well.
There
appear to be many incidents detailed in the report that seem to violate the US
Constitution, but apparently the Justice Department does not think it can file
a civil rights suit. Do you agree with that assessment?
 |
| Charles Ogletree |
I do agree
with that. And I am glad that Eric Holder before he leaves is moving to think
about that. This report talks about the disparity in Ferguson in particular as
it applies to people of African-American descent.
And that
tells me that you have to change things and make sure that people are going to
school, make sure they are not being arrested for bogus civil matters by the
police who use that as a way to make money, make sure that they have a
responsibility to vote.
Only 1 out
of 5 people in Ferguson vote. And that is really against the trend,
particularly when President Obama, my former student and a mentee of mine, was
running in 2008 and 2012 we saw enormous numbers of African-Americans come out
to vote because there was a black candidate that they liked. But it didn't
happen in significant numbers in Ferguson. So there is a lot of change that
needs to happen.
I know this
is a little controversial, but I think there needs to be an examination of the
mayor and the police chief to decide whether they are the right people to lead
Ferguson forward. They have spoken here and we have had people listen to them.
We had people protest the fact that we even invited them. But I think this
means that this city should be one of the top cities in America in the 21st
century. That is what I hope will happen with these changes in the process of
how people get involved in politics and in the survival of the folks in
Ferguson.
If you
agree that the Justice Department can't bring a civil rights suit, do you think
the Justice Department should file a criminal suit?
That's the
harder one. They are limited in what they can do criminally. They tried to do
something in the Rodney King case [beaten by Los Angeles police in 1991, ed.]
here in the United States. They are trying to be effective in one way or
another. I think it is very hard because all they can focus on is civil rights
violations – and I think there are civil rights violations – but it's very hard
to prove them. I would be very surprised if the Department of Justice brought a
suit that could stick and that would have some impact on what's happening in
Ferguson. I don't think that they can. I doubt that they will.
A striking
detail in the report is the fact that traffic fines were the second-biggest
source of income for the city of Ferguson and that city officials urged law
enforcement to drum up even more revenue that way. What does that tell you?
It tells me
that race matters and it matters in the wrong direction that people are being
falsely arrested in order to get money from the people. And it also reinforces
that folks don't feel that they don't have a real responsibility to engage in
running for office, in being elected for office and voting for candidates and
holding jobs that will make their families more successful. All these things
stem from the fact what African-Americans see in Ferguson: that they are
treated differently and treated with less respect and dignity by the police
force. That's why, one, African-American people need to stand up and be strong
and, two, the people of Ferguson need to have leaders who represent them in a
fair and conscientious way and not simply look at their race and ignore their
rights.
Is Ferguson
an extreme and isolated case or do you think other communities have similar
problems?
I have to
say it is not isolated even tough it is extreme. If you look at what's
happening in Chicago and the problems that city has had. If you even look at
what's happening in parts of Boston - Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury – you see
the distinction of African-Americans being arrested, jailed, dropping out of
school, not working. I think that becomes a problem. It's a national problem in
so many communities. I don't want to cite all the different cities, but if you
go to Newark, New Jersey, if you go to parts of Harlem, New York, if you go to
Cleveland, if you go to Illinois in many states you see that problem. It's not
a Southern problem, it is a national problem that is affecting communities
around the United States. I hope that Ferguson will be an example of what other
communities can do as well if they move in the right direction.
If you
think the Justice Department can't do anything legally, what concretely can be
changed in Ferguson?
I think it
is going to be adults educating their children that things can make a
difference. I think back as a kid whose parents – my mother was from Arkansas,
my father was from Alabama – and they came to California and I was born in
1952. And they had a sense that there was segregation and discrimination and
there was a whole list of laws that made it impossible for them to succeed, but
they wanted to make sure that there son, their first child, me, would finish
high school. And then, because I did well in high school it was not a surprise
that I was the very first in my family to finish high school and then go and
finish college - and then go to law school. And that is what we have to do.
My son and
my daughter, due to my wife who has been exceptional and made sure that they
finish high school, made sure that they went to college and finished college
and made sure that they have great jobs now. So it has to be a transformative
experience that means that you are lifting up the generations behind you and
then as you do that you are going to make sure that the generations behind you
are lifting up the generations that are behind them as well. That's what we are
trying to do and that is going to make a big difference.
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